If you kill a pregnant woman that’s 2 charges. Would you rip puppies out of a dog? Also they breathe the child’s back to fold them out. Another, they tear off the arms and legs as it feels pain to pull them out piece by piece. @grok describes a fetus at 10-14 weeks

This is the best example of why your Bible translation matters, and why modern translations are mostly garbage. Exodus 21:22–25 does NOT say life begins at birth. The original Hebrew says that when a pregnant woman is struck, causing “her children to come out” (וְיָצְאוּ יְלָדֶיהָ), a fine applies if no harm follows. But if harm occurs, the penalty is “life for life.” In other words, the passage can describe premature birth: if the child is unharmed, a fine; if the child is killed, life for life. The Hebrew never says the child died or that only the mother’s injuries count. Translating this as “miscarriage” assumes precisely what is being debated. This reading is consistent with Genesis 25:22, Psalm 139:13–16, Jeremiah 1:5, and Luke 1:41–44, which all recognize children or God’s relationship with them before birth. Birth is not presented as the moment human life acquires its value.

Religion is a control mechanism.

In Jewish law (Halakha), a fetus is considered a "potential life" but is explicitly designated as lav nefesh hu (not yet a full person/soul). It only transitions into a nefesh during the process of birth—specifically when the head or the greater part of the body emerges from the birth canal and the baby takes its first breath. At that exact threshold, the newborn gains full human status and equal rights.

The Bible consistently describes the unborn as human life under God’s care. It does not treat abortion as a morally neutral “healthcare” decision.

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart;” -Jeremiah 1:5

The “cafeteria” religious always pick & choose what suits their point regardless of actual words on a page. Also, believe what you want, but we’re still not a theocracy & women’s healthcare shouldn’t be legislated as if we were. #SeparationOfChurchAndState

Job 33:4 & Ezekiel 37:5–6: Other Old Testament passages similarly link the active presence of life to breath. For instance, Job states, "The breath of the Almighty gives me life," and Ezekiel's vision of the dry bones shows bodies fully formed but not "alive" until breath enters them.

Verse 22 allows the husband to apply a financial penalty if early delivery of the baby is caused by the violent man. Verse 23 requires the death penalty to that man if the baby dies in the premature birth, and says "thou shalt give life for life."

This verse has nothing to do with abortion and deals with accidental or third party violence resulting in the death of a fetus. It is pretty disingenuous to present this as though it settles the debate when there is no biblical reference for abortion, but it is clear on the fact that life begins at conception.

It also defines children as property and gives fathers permission to murder or sell them for any reason. There is literally no biblical justification far outlawing abortion.

The nuns always taught me that every aborted baby goes straight to heaven. They also told us that God doesn't need anyone's help to enforce his will. If you think you're doing God's work and helping god with his mission of stopping woman from reproductive decisions you lost me

Pro-abortion atheists love using the bible for some reason.

Also the Jewish faith allows abortion and does not consider a fetus to be an independent person with equal status as a pregnant person until birth.

False. Conception is the start of life.

If you read the right translation is very easy to understand.

Imagine - let’s put that in Black and White While the Bible does NOT use the term abortion there are several versus that explain when life begins: Psalms 139:13–15 13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's WOMB. 14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. 15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth And then there is one of the strongest indicators which in scripture actually shows that life absolutely begins at conception and maybe before! Jeremiah 1:5 5 BEFORE I FORMED thee in the BELLY I knew thee; and BEFORE thou camest forth OUT of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Exodus 21:22-27 22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with CHILD, so that her fruit depart from her (miscarriage), and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall PAY as the judges determine. 23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, (So if the child died the one that caused it should lose his life also) 24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. 26 And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake. 27 And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake. So how does he improperly call a fetus property? “Exodus 21 does not mention a fetus. Instead, Exodus 21:21 famously uses the word "money" (or property/possession in other translations) to describe an ENSLAVED person, stating that a master is not executed if a beaten slave survives a day or two, "for he is his money." For those of us paying attention the fetus is NOT property - this verse clearly states: IF ANY MISCHIEF (loss of the baby which is in the womb) follow, then thou shall give life for life! It does NOT say that only the woman is valuable!

“Miscarriage” is the problem. That’s not the original translation. The words used are yeled and yasa. They literally mean come out/come forth. See Gen 1:24 - Let the earth bring forth... Gen 8:17 - Bring out with you.. Gen 15:4 - the one who shall come forth... We cannot assume “stillborn” applies because the Bible has other words for that, but Moses didn’t use them. See Job 3:16. Job 21:10. Hosea 9:14. Moses didn't use those words in Ex 21:22. Stillborn is not automatically assumed. Biblical justice is real simple. Proportional restitution. The punishment fits the crime. That’s what “eye for an eye” means. No death penalty for jaywalking. Ex 21 differentiates between two scenarios. If there’s a fight, and the kid “comes out”/a premature birth/the kid goes from internal to external, then the penalty is assessed by the damage done. If the kid is okay and there’s no serious injury, then there is a civil fine. The perpetrator pays damages to a damaged family. If the fight results in the kid coming out early, and the kid dies, then the offender is to be put to death. Lex Talionis. The degree of the damage sets the penalty. At no point is there a “property” argument. Duh. Again, that's the accidental death of the preborn. Purposeful murder of the unborn certainly warrants the death penalty.

I look forward to the day when horrible things aren’t hidden behind obviously obfuscated language. If you support it, don’t hide behind it with camouflaged and dishonestly flowery terms. No one is opposed to “women’s healthcare”. You know this. No one is opposed to OB/GYN checkups, Pap smears, pre- and post-natal care, cervical cancer screenings, or literally any other single healthcare procedure. We are against ONE very narrow, very isolated, and very specific procedure: abortion. You know this, too. Be proud of your stance. State it boldly. You are pro-abortion and we are anti-abortion. All women deserve and should demand protections for women’s actual healthcare and, by the way, we all support it.

The King James Bible teaches that life begins at conception bye teaching that Mary was with child when she had conceived

But actually interpreting the biblical text accurately would lessen their control over women, and modern day, so called Christians, in the United States will not stand for that!

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”

God's not here and no one has the right to dictate my body choices except me. If abortion is 'sin' ( it's not) then that's between me and God, no one else!!

I don’t know why we even have to use one religious POV to determine right & wrong in our times. Essentially, you’re using another legal context from another geographical area & era to replace current laws/rights/culture.

The bible also says God knew us before we were born.

Eh not really. It doesn't say of a woman wants to abort her child, she can do it. Just some "wrist to elbow" logic and assumptions

the bible says you don't have life until god breathes a soul into you.

Not defending the Bible because too much of it is nonsense, but what she reads also says it's the "woman's child".

Imagine thinking the writings of Bronze Age sand dwellers are appropriate to modern 21st century life when 3000 years ago, getting pregnant was seen as a great mystery, sperm and ovum interacting wouldn’t be observed for millennia and women and children were tradable commodities.

That’s what happens when a single verse is removed from the whole and cited without full context. The Bible begins with the beginning—God—who breathes life into the entire universe generally and man specifically. Man is made in the image of God. That’s the point. And that relationship is the center. The entire story is about the value for life in its fullness. A value so high that God was willing to sacrifice his own son’s life to bring humans back into it. God is the Creator of life. He determines it’s beginning. That, in and of itself, is a miracle that no man can equal. But also He, alone, has the “right” to determine when a life moves from the earthly to the spiritual realm. Ignoring all that, disregarding an innocent life and taking it simply because you can is not any human’s “right”. It’s abhorrent.

Actually it doesn’t. This verse is in reference to manslaughter not murder. The Bible doesn’t treat it the same way. The offending man did not intentionally kill the unborn child - thus the fine instead of a death penalty. The Bible explicitly forbids the murder of the innocent.

Abortion isn’t women’s healthcare it’s women’s convenience and putting herself before the child she participated in creating. White washing it into “healthcare” doesn’t change what it is or the barbarism of it.

The fact that Christians get to pick and choose which Bible verses are going to be adhered to in modern times is a joke. You can’t decide to follow one while ignoring 99% of the others.

You’re wrong . It was a CHILD…. Not fetus, not anything else . It was a CHILD… not cells, not anything else… a CHILD. What do you call a 2 /3/5 year old ? A child . And the FATHER gets to determine how much the loss of his child means . When you kill or cause someone to die, on top of any punishment, you have to pay restitution right? When people file a wrongful death suit, did they OWN the person? No, they are demanding compensation for their loss. It was alive . The fact that yall want to justify murder. Yall will apply rules and words in order to accomplish that in any fuckin way your demonic, selfish , hedonistic souls fucking desire.

Entire point of that passage is that if the baby is killed accidentally *before it is born, then the life of the man who accidentally killed the unborn baby is forfeit. It’s the exact verse where we get lex talionis: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth. Just thoughtless.

Thank God we do not live in a Theocracy. I am a physician, and I rely on science to tell me when a human life begins. It begins at conception. That is consistent with my medical liability towards the unborn, which begins at that moment. We do not rely on your religion.