Building a Philosophical Case for Protestantism | Dr. Christopher Cloos

The Protestant Philosopher retweeted
Over at Substack, @FrictionPhilo drops a cluster bomb analysis of the Eucharistic miracle of Lanciano. I'm glad someone took the time to investigate this and continue to prove Hume's maxim that miracle accounts tend to collapse under rigorous scrutiny.
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The Catholic miracle argument faces a dilemma. If you reign in the notion of what counts as “vindicatory” so that it excludes the cases put forward in the article by Jan Hus on Contra Papam, then Calanda, Pio and Fatima don’t qualify as vindicatory either. If, however, you loosen what counts as vindicatory, you get back the Catholic miracles along with the miracles from the Contra Papam article, namely Kerin, Kuhlman, and Spurgeon. But, if you let those back in, you show that the standard for vindication is flawed. So, either give up the Catholic miracle case or somehow jury-rig your standard. That’s a cost either way.
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This is an excellent reducio of Catholic vindicatory miracle claims: contrapapam.substack.com/p/y… As the author, Jan Hus, explains: “Let me be clear: I am not claiming that all of the above miracles vindicate their respective traditions. In fact, my claim is the opposite... Clearly, not all of these contradictory denominations can be simultaneously true, nor do I even agree with most of the doctrines supposedly vindicated by these miracles. But if this is the case, then something must be flawed in the Catholic miracle argument.” I’m working on an article that shows exactly what’s flawed about the Catholic miracle argument. This tees it up nicely. If the Catholic standard makes their miracles vindicatory, then it makes these cases vindicatory too. That can’t be the case, as they contradict each other. Hence, the Catholic standard is flawed. Well done, Jan Hus!
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The Protestant Philosopher retweeted
Great video by @gavinortlund highlighting some of the relevant and recent scholarship on the dating and authorship of the Gospel of John. Really well put together stuff! piped.video/ZC3VYrzVUP4?si=G0Zc…
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A short post on two senses of ‘vindication’ regarding Catholic miracles: protestantreview.substack.co…
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Zeitoun: 1 hour 46 minutes of evidence, 37 seconds on what it means. Fatima: 40 minutes of evidence, 2 minutes on what it means. I don't think that's laziness. I think it's telling us something. piped.video/sh0HBmpnvM8?si=m5Wd…
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It's bring your kid to work day.
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Wollen is being funny here, but, yeah, this is not the way to address the miracles.
Glad to see this guy is putting so much time into his research. If I were Catholic I’d be really worried
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Back o' the napkin math: To fully address Joe's 10 hour Miracles PROVE Catholicism video, we have 600 minutes of video, which the commentator suggests one hour of research needed per ten minutes of video, which gives us 60 hours of research. And if you're really getting into the weeds of the technical research it's probably more like a 10:1 research stretch, which is 10 hours for every one hour of video. So, you're probably looking at 100 hours for a full rebuttal, which is about one month of working 4 hours a day with no days off. And that's just one video. If you factor in the full corpus of cases, plus the full evidence brief on each, you're probably looking at about a year of work. So, yeah, the case-by-case-all-the-details refutation strategy is untenable for most people. And, the old dip your toe in the cases to secure a "pattern of him being superficial" doesn't work either. There must be a better way.
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The Protestant Philosopher retweeted
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The Protestant Philosopher retweeted
Replying to @ProtPhilosopher
Panic? Nah. However, to me. It does raise some interesting questions about the more supernatural aspects (miracles, exorcisms, etc.) he stated as what ultimately convinced him, given his obvious intellectual prowess and prior functionally naturalistic tendencies. Outside of the crazier elements of Charismatic circles (very unappealing), Protestant Evangelicalism, including even the sane Charismatic circles, has conditioned itself to have little to say about those sorts of things (at least without first offering some weird, long-winded disclaimers or embarrassment before bringing it up), and even shy away from those sorts of things (also very unappealing). Schmid isn’t just some “based Trad bro” looking for smells and bells and a cooler aesthetic rooted in ancient history, which is the stated reason for the flock of young men to Rome or the EO, which has been quite overstated anyway (it’s an Internet thing mostly). Rather, he is altogether something different. So, his stated reasons in light of the bare minimum supernaturalism of God, sin, salvation, and heaven and otherwise a functionally naturalistic approach of Evangelical Protestantism as the alternative, aside from crazy Charismaticism, should be cause for some internal reflection on our part as how we approach these issues.
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The Protestant Philosopher retweeted
Foreshadowing:
Look at you, Joe, getting all RC up in here. Lol! I had many of those same worries, which I worked through. First, you haven't even seen the actual argument. If you still have the same worries after looking at it, then that will be good to know. It's a work in progress. Second, and more substantively, you worry that the commitments aren't logically independent. The argument doesn't assume independence. It uses conditional probabilities. There's a probabilistic penalty applied to the conjunction not because the claims are independent but because they're not related by logical entailment. You also raise the issue of them being strongly probabilified by papal authority. But even if the probability of tradition and magisterium and infallibility given papal authority is something like 0.95, the conjunction penalty still applies because 0.95 is less than 1. Further, "papal authority" as a basic supposition is what needs justification, and the historical evidence calls this into question. You say it's a "modest basic posit," but it's not. It's the very claim under dispute. Third, you worry that coherence is an advantage over "pick and choose" Protestantism. But that coherence is bought at the price of construction. That is, if the Magisterium has final interpretive authority over Scripture and Tradition, plus its own past declarations, then the system will appear coherent regardless of whether the claims are true. What evidence within the Catholic system could falsify the papal infallibility that the system assumes and relies on? Any counterevidence gets reinterpreted by the authority whose claims are being questioned. That's a hoot and a holler from full-blown unfalsifiability. Also, Protestantism isn't "pick and choose." It's Scripture judging tradition, which is a principled criterion. We're not arbitrarily selecting doctrines. All are tested against the infallible norm of Scripture. That's not incoherent. It's a different model of coherence, one that has an external check instead of something like a self-validating circle. Fourth, you say logically stronger hypotheses gain more from successful predictions. That is a good Bayesian point. Riskier and more specific predictions do get a boost in confirmation when successful. But what successful predictions does Catholicism make? Well, I won't walk through them all, but going off what Joshua Sijuwade has argued in sections 4 and 5 of his paper "The Identity of the Church," the Catholic system's predictions fail. So we don't get the likelihood boost you're gesturing at. However, Protestantism predicts a fallible church guided by infallible Scripture would show the pattern we actually observe. The broad agreement over first degree doctrines and the messiness over secondary matters is what we predict and observe. So I'd say the predictive power point cuts against Catholicism when you look at the actual historical evidence.
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