E185:
@variational_io - Zero Fees, More Assets, No Funding Rate
@variational_lvs co-founded a hedge fund at 20 that Digital Currency Group acquired a year later, then walked away from that exit to build Variational that now sits second only to Hyperliquid in open interest and daily volume.
His argument: crypto rebuilt exchanges before it built brokers, and that architectural gap is what's holding on-chain trading back.
0:00 Intro
2:20 Merch, Travel & Being Back in Singapore
5:13 Who Is Lucas Schuermann?
5:24 How Lucas Thinks About Building Trust
6:03 Starting College at Age 12
8:26 How Do You Actually Skip That Many Grades?
9:45 Making Friends Six Years Younger Than Everyone Else
10:40 Are You Still a "Weirdo" at 30?
11:40 Starting a Hedge Fund at 20 - "Hubris of the Young"
14:09 From Paper-Reading Group to a Real Fund
16:50 Acquired by Digital Currency Group at 21
18:59 Why Sell the Fund to DCG?
19:54 Sponsors: Variational &
@Bitwise
20:47 Did You Regret Selling That Early?
21:51 The Money DCG Made Off Their Work
22:38 Starting a Market Making Firm
24:46 Explain Variational Protocol to Your Mom
26:49 Biggest Mistake Building Variational
28:13 The "Holy Sh*t, We Built Something Massive" Moment
29:54 Reason #1: Zero Fees
32:59 How Do You Trust the Price With Only One Market Maker?
34:33 Are Trading Fees a Scam?
35:29 How Much Do Fees Actually Cost Traders?
36:33 Reason #2: Asset Selection & What "Liquidity" Really Means
40:20 Why Hasn't Crypto Solved This Already?
42:39 Where On-Chain Order Books Break at Scale
46:04 Sponsor:
@KASTxyz
46:52 Why Wouldn't a Hyperliquid Trader Switch to Variational?
49:28 Who Gets Destroyed When Wall Street Liquidity Arrives On-Chain
51:18 Reason #3: Swaps
52:34 The Real Problem With Perps: Funding Rates
55:18 Roger's BitMEX Story: "Holy Sht, I Can Print More Bitcoin"
58:44 The Hard Lesson: Wiped Out by Funding Fees
1:00:38 Why Perps Are Easy but Options Aren't
1:01:13 What Is a Swap, Really?
1:03:20 How Swaps Beat Perps
1:05:28 Why Raise $50M in May?
1:07:30 Sponsor:
@JupiterExchange &
@ethena
1:08:14 Does VC Funding Help or Hurt a Project?
1:09:46 Variational vs. Hyperliquid: The Architecture Difference
1:11:44 Why Didn't Hyperliquid Build for Hundreds of Assets First?
1:13:14 Staying Relevant After the Points Program Ends
1:15:11 The "AWS of Liquidity" Analogy, Revisited
1:16:47 What Hyperliquid Gets Wrong About the Future
1:17:48 What Variational Could Get Wrong
1:19:06 Who Wins Long Term: Binance, Coinbase, Hyperliquid, or Variational?
1:21:39 Bitcoin Price Outlook & Crypto Adoption in 2026-27
1:23:59 Variational's Endgame
1:25:51 The One Thing to Remember
1:27:18 Closing Thoughts