Normally wouldn't post an interview transcript of this length, but if you're interested in keeping tabs on Cabinet support for Shabana Mahmood's immigration reforms, this is worth a read from Energy Secretary Miatta Fahnbulleh
Sophy Ridge: Just to be crystal clear: Do you support plans for people to have lived in the UK for 15 years before they can get permanent residency?
Miatta Fahnbulleh: The first thing I'd say, because there's been a lot of speculation, Shabana has got a really tough job and I think a home secretary getting a grip on small boats crossings is something that all of us want to see.
SR: Can I just come in? I really just want a straight answer. Do you support plans for people to live in the UK for 15 years before they get permanent residency?
MF: Look, we have got to reform our immigration system and my view is that we need a system that is based on the principle of compassion, contribution. And so there is a package of reforms the Home Secretary has been consulting on, she's looking at the range of responses and she will come out with the measures that we take forward. But the key thing I would say is no one can look at our immigration system, and I say this as someone that came into this country as a refugee, and not believe that it's broken and not believe that we need to fundamentally reform it. But our principle has to be a system where we've got control, but ultimately a system that when people do come to this country, they are able to integrate, they are able to contribute, and that we both respect but also value that contribution.
SR: Okay. You haven't, in any part of that answer, said that you agree with these reforms. I'm just going to read you the definition of collective responsibility: "Decisions made by the cabinet are binding on all members of the government. This means if a minister disagrees with the government policy, he or she must still publicly support it". So I'm going to ask you a third time, do you support plans for people to have to live in the UK for 15 years before they can get permanent residency?
MF: I support reforms that say that people have to contribute and make a contribution to this country, in order to get citizenship. We are consulting on the package of reforms that we'll put forward and the Home Secretary, as you can imagine, having looked at all the responses, will set out what the final position is.
SR: Do you support the plans or not? It's my fourth time asking.
MF: So I absolutely support the plans to reform our immigration system. It is broken
SR: I'm asking you something super specific here. Do you support plans for people to live in the UK for 15 years before you get permanent residency?
MF: The Home Secretary is consulting on those plans, and she will set up the government's final position.
SR: You can't say whether you support that or not?
MF: The Home Secretary is consulting. Look, we absolutely need to reform our immigration system. I support the reforms. And by the way, it is not easy to reform our immigration system. So I 100% back Shabana Mahmood and everything she is trying to do, but there is a package of reforms. We are consulting in the way that government always does. And the Home Secretary, rightly having looked at all the responses to the consultation, will set out the final package that ultimately will do the job of reforming our immigration system based on the principle of control, which we absolutely must do. But critically, a system that ensures that people make a contribution and when they make a contribution, they are integrated into our communities so that we can have diverse communities, like my one in Peckham, in which people can live together and can ensure that they are making the contribution to get to the country and the society that we want.
SR: I know you've got to go, but I think from what you've said, it's pretty clear that you don't support waiting 15 years for permanent residency. So I'm just going to give you one chance to correct that if that's not your view
MF: Don't put words in my mouth. The key point is we are consulting...
SR: I'm not. I'm saying, this is your chance to correct that if that is not your view, because this is the impression you've given. So if you don't think that, tell us now.
MF: We are consulting on the package of proposals that were put forward. The Home Secretary is looking at the consultation and she will set out our final position. But what I absolutely back Shabana on is the need to reform our immigration system, because it is fundamentally broken. And I also fundamentally support the principles that we have got to control our borders, because everyone expects us to do that, and critically, that we have to have a system in which people contribute and when they contribute, they are able to become citizens and they are able to be integrated into our community. That is an immigration system that makes sense. That is an immigration system that will build public concern. And she's absolutely right to try and deliver that immigration system.