I am puzzled by the apparent position of the PM on the dropping of the prosecutions in the alleged China spying cases. I am not an expert in this area so am happy to be corrected. But it seems to me that two things are being conflated. /1
This does not address the fact the Crown Prosecution Service says it spent months seeking further evidence from government about the threat posed by China — but got nothing. Also, the PM claims his hands were tied by the Conservative govt’s classification of China. Is that true? Does the Official Secrets Act (and the 2024 case law) not simply require prosecutors to demonstrate that a state constituted an enemy (or threat to national security) at the time of the offence? Genuine Q: Is there any basis in legislation or precedent for the idea a govt has to defer to a previous administration’s analysis of the facts? If so — why would the CPS have spent so much time seeking further evidence from the government? That would seem an extraordinary misreading of the law and waste of time and resource by prosecutors.

Oct 8, 2025 · 8:30 AM UTC

16
109
236
91,564
Under the (now repealed) Official Secrets Act 1911, as interpreted by the courts (including by the Court of Appeal in Ivanova[2024] EWCA Crim 808, the 'enemy' in question must have been an 'enemy' at the time the offence was committed. That much is uncontroversial. /2
2
12
49
4,336
The meaning of 'enemy', according to the Court of Appeal, includes 'a country which represents a current threat to the national security of the UK' and involves questions of 'fact and degree' that are ultimately for the jury. /3
1
13
49
11,483
A separate question concerns evidence that might enable a jury to conclude that a given country, eg China, was an enemy at the relevant time (ie at the time of the commission of the alleged offence). /4
1
12
43
3,751
Unless I am misunderstanding it, the PM's position appears to be that the only view that matters is that of the government *at the time of the commission of the alleged offence* such that the current government cannot form an independent view and submit it as evidence. /5
2
15
55
5,158
But I can see no basis for that view in the Act or in the case law. In particular, I can see no reason why the current govt could not submit evidence to the effect that, in its view, a given country was an enemy when the alleged offence was committed ... /6
2
13
68
5,163
... even thought a different government was in office at that time. It would be for the court to weigh the current government's evidence, but the notion that the current government cannot have a view that can constitute evidence is hard to follow. /7
2
13
50
3,378
Presumably what I have said here aligns with the view of the CPS, otherwise they would not have spent several months (unsuccessfully) seeking evidence from the current government about its view concerning China at the relevant time. /8
1
13
59
8,446
As I say, I am not an expert in this area (so may well be overlooking something important) andI would be interested in the views of those who are. 9/9
2
9
34
3,471
One further thought on this: Here is what the Security Minister (in the previous government) said in 2024: /10
3
23
69
8,727
Even if the previous government's position was decisive (which I don't think it is), it's hard to argue that it spoke with one view to the effect that China wasn't a threat to national security at the relevant time (which is the key issue). 11/11
5
10
54
2,981
Sort replies: Relevant Recent Liked
Replying to @ProfMarkElliott
Excellent summary of the process/legal issues at play. The Govt needs to answer these points forthwith @afneil @BBCNewsnight @bbclaurak @BBCNews @MattChorley @GBNEWS @christopherhope @CDP1882 @MichelleDewbs @CamillaTominey
2
17
1,298
Replying to @ProfMarkElliott
So are you saying that the law says it is NOT a crime to share national secrets with a state not deemed an enemy?!? This is bizarre, surely passing classified to any unauthorised person is a breach of OSA
1
8
494
Replying to @ProfMarkElliott
I wonder whether HMG is trying to have it's cake and eat it by trying this case as charged without releasing evidence that would strain its relationship with China
1
5
1,468
Replying to @ProfMarkElliott
Labour has also done everything it can to avoid registering China on the FIRS database, so that those who have interests or lobby for them, must declare their interest. I am reminded of the Biden playbook in Ukraine. Was this all about Labour financial sleaze???
4
78
Replying to @ProfMarkElliott
The perfection of hybrid dominance, overtly covert, difficult to pin down, hold by the balls while talking nicely…
1
2
886
Replying to @ProfMarkElliott
Mark, hold your horses. The simplest solution is that there is no evidence. And that this entire story has been fabricated by the 'intelligence services' who lust for conflict with China, and the complicit media.
1
106
Replying to @ProfMarkElliott
If a country is spying on us, I'd say they are a decent factor enemy.
1
114
Replying to @ProfMarkElliott
Is Starmer a communist spy for China?? How else do you explain the Chagos 'deal'
4
Replying to @ProfMarkElliott
Why does giving official secrets to a third party have to be to an enemy? Surely any matter that the government might want to keep secret should be protected whether it is provided to a hostile state or to one that might be friendly but a competitor?
3
1
12
879
Replying to @ProfMarkElliott
This seems entirely coherent and correct. If the contemporaneous assessment of risk from a foreign state is fixed, that allows no capacity for new information to be discovered or determined over time. Which is patently a nonsense
1
1
7
618
Replying to @ProfMarkElliott
At the time, MI5 Chief Ken McCullum was repeatedly making statements about the severity of the threat posed by China. The Intelligence and Security Committee were just completing a report on China, which included reams of government evidence.
4
121
Ask yourself a serious question of ever seeing Chinese naval ship threatening UK, or Chinese threatening UK in a more serious sense than UK does to China's interest like banning Huawei's 5G networking equipment, possible MI6 involving in HK in 2019 or even UK self harming itself with stupid war with Russia over Uktaine's foolish decision to cosy up with US and lsrael, or UK allowing its MPs to be spied or lobby on by US or Israel?
48