Nobody has fully mastered RG/RR to this day in 3 and 4.
When you master a mechanic to 85 %, that 15 % matters.
More the more frequent and varied are the events related to it. Like Vergil's multi-JdCs vs a single JdC (reactable, but keeping you in check).
Or how he+
I do think most people are capable of attaining a certain level of memorization of the opponents movements (as they are CPU) and thus have the parry carry their whole gameplay, it kinda happens with DMC too but atleast in DMC your parry doesn't "damage" the enemy, you build-
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mixes up his ground combos, let alone spamming teleports, which will make you consider your position to start RGing from the first hit? Second hit? Only the second part of the combo?
This is before considering the situations where you more directly move to RG/RR because of how+
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hitboxes work. Not just the tighter timings.
You can say: we all know you are a DMC4 player and you are simply replaying DMC3 after years. You are rusty af which is why you got hit in those clips.
Ok. Not sure you understand how good+
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is @TurtleSensei1 's execution in DMC4, yet he fails in the clip above. Be it timing, vertical positioning or both.
When you identify or MISidentify a position to RG or RR, not only the timing, you compromise on that position, not just the timing.
Memory is a small part of the+
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equation and by that reasoning dodging and going back with stingers/KB is "trivialized" with memory and far less demanding executional balance.
My analogy with headshots? PvE should be trivialized by memory by your own reasoning. You "memorize" every bit of AI and headshoot in+
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trajectories or when they are motionless briefly. Boom.
But it's not "just" that, is it?
In this type of conversations the word "just" is very frequent and does a lot of "work", besides other errors and double standards in your arguments, let alone the lack of evidence.+
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When I talk about "us", DMC players who have been trying to master such things for years, I am not appealing to authority.
I am not telling you: we right cuz we better.
I am using players as subjects for evidence: when even such people fail, don't you see something isn't+
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adding up in your reasoning with RG and RR?
I know people have started reacting like Pavlov dogs with "positioning", because it's trendy, but the topic is far more complex. Let alone how common are timings. Many GH hitbox interactions are+
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basically reading and timings. Are they also "just" timings?
Executional balance is KEY in game design. In this case not only through frame windows, but also indirectly through non tracking enemy moves, accurate and small hitboxes (also RG's, not just enemy's attacks).+
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This is why rolling > RG or jump > RG helps (Cerb's falling ice-shards, for example), but it doesn't "trivialize" lol. From varied multi-hit situations, multiple-enemies to mix-ups like Vergil's...
In DMD at most it "carries" you with some specific situations.
What does+
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"carry" even mean?
Beating?
S-Ranking?
Speedrunning...?
High level play in challenge runs...?
High level Style Play...?
Depending on area/style, they will aspire to that 80-85 % and then push for 5 % more or whatever and depending on attacks to RG/RR.
Is it+
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"carrying" when you increased your mastery? Then what ISN'T "carrying".
How many observations, understanding of AI, timings, positional RGs/RRs did you have to make?
Let alone Style Play where you would aspire to "master" everything (with priorities), which is impossible.+
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80 % or 85 % vs 95 % can mean to get a speedrun record months earlier or not for a high level speedrunner. It can mean to 1 CC something far sooner or not. It can mean to win a match or not. To be able to record a full stylish Vergil fight or+
Sep 17, 2026 · 4:17 PM UTC
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just isolated clips.
And even if it was """just""" a challenge where you RG/RR e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g no damage, the amount of attempts will crucially depend on this.
And here I include spiral swords and every DT move/JdC type of combination.
If you said: but isn't this+
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applicable to everything?
No. Because simply staying away and rolling to avoid Vergil's harder attacks and punish the obvious shit with longer range moves you pretty much reach the high end success rate "immediately". And it's something which shouldn't be nearly as+
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rewarding, even though it depends on chosen style, objective, etc.
Far before modern parry games, parries were already popular and people intuitively knew how impressive it was to see someone "squeezing" that success rate percentage with RGs. Now+
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everyone is suddenly a timing expert and timing is "just" timing.
You don't need OSU!/guitar hero to get depth from optimized timings and executional fine-tuning, even they excel at it.
Leaving the examples where these tools aren't even divorced from positioning aside.+
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Let alone other things mostly based on timing than a quite basic "positioning". Yet people pretend it's the positioning which made the decision super "brainy". While they sleep on actually very tight positions like my example with DMC4 set-ups and RR's while your brain+
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is already busy flying with fausts and mephistos.
Humans have a "bandwidth", which can be optimized in different ways, but will always have limits. I will talk more in-depth about this particular aspect in another thread """soon""" about decision-making and what is truly a+
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"decision", as long as I don't get too lazy.
But for this discussion, this is partly why MGRR's counters are far simpler than mastering RG in DMC3/4 despite being directional.
Not only the timing, not only the fact that they can hit more enemies, not only the reward, while+
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RG doesn't even stun more than one enemy (in 3) and RR doesn't do much damage without a full charge... Not only all these factors, but also WHAT you are doing WHILE you are supposed to identify a good parry situation and what you can lose in different objectives.
And I+
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Gold Ranked all VR missions many years ago. Even if I don't consider myself a giga MGRR fan.
Sorry for partly "ranting", when obviously some things aren't just in regard to you but rather the more general and shallow discourse about such topics.
Addendum: making RG always+
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directional goes against the idea of its lock-on and its purpose. RR reversals/re-directions also works differently between 3 and 4, as in 3 it depends on the direction Dante is facing.
Note how I used a gun shot to make him face Vergil in 1 example.
DMC's lock-on system is absolutely crucial to optimize the accuracy of directional and even non directional moves against more than one targets.
If there wasn't a lock-on system like this (and target switching), a whole layer of decisions would be removed and the game would+
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