On Being English:
1) England is a *country* - which confers a nationality to those who belong to that country.
2) English is also used colloquially as a synonym to mean the ethnicity of *Anglo-Saxon.
People are talking across each other. Nationality and ethnicity are distinct. I have been using the word English to mean my country of England since my LBC days until today. We will not give up our country to the restrictive linguistic rigidity of ethno-nationalists.
Maajid Nawaz: "Perhaps where we may disagree is where I'd like to now move this to on the issue of Englishness and Britishness is: do you think that Englishness is just an ethnicity or can it also be a country? And what I mean by that is there is something called English ethnicity. I may perhaps for the purposes of avoiding confusion, and I've done so on LBC, somebody called up once and had this conversation with me, for the purposes of avoiding confusion and making sure everyone understands what's being discussed, I may refer to it as a white Anglo-Saxon ethnicity. Just to be very precise as to what we're speaking about, speaking about white people who have either a Celtic or an Anglo-Saxon or a Norman background who live in the British Isles. So there is such a thing as a lineage and ethnicity, and a culture, that emanates from that grouping. Is there a second category in your mind? And I'm posing this as a question because I'm not trying to force my view on you. I want to hear your view. So is there a second category in your mind that if you look at England as a country and Scotland as a country and Wales as a country and Ireland as a country, say, putting aside the North Ireland versus Republic of Ireland debate for a minute, if these are countries, and as countries that have a polity, and they have an administrative state that defines their boundaries, is there a civic notion of being English? And if you want, we can use a different word for that. Perhaps, I don't know, English versus Englander, or whatever word you want to use, or perhaps even The opposite, white Anglo-Saxon English people versus just English citizens. Is there room, in your view, for a civic identity that sits on top of that lineage-based identity?"
@Con_Tomlinson: "I wouldn't say it's a civic identity. The way that I've described it before is you can describe adopted family members or national friends who have other heritage as an Anglophile. We can make special dispensations for people that have a genuinely positive relationship with the majority. But if you just have self-governing communities who self-identify as English because they say, well, there is a civic identity that doesn't require me to have any of that lineage, then what you get is you have to face the proposition of it's well, you could say it's an absurd hypothetical, but demographically we're trending in that direction. If there were no English people left in England, nobody of Anglo-Saxon, Celtic or even earlier Brittonic, you know, ethnic heritage, which plenty of us have. And it was here before the ice sheets, and they would still define themselves as English, if you had England of 100% Somalians, but they call themselves English, would it be England? And most people, you would say no, I would say no. And that means that even if you have a reverence for the place, even if you fulfilled what you would say that the civic criteria of Englishness is, there's still this essential component that if it isn't present would cause the destruction of the country, the dispossession of the people from their land. And those people are the, the nation is the people, and that is the beating heart of the nation state. You can learn to love the country, you might even be accepted as an adopted family member, but just as you can't write yourself into my family's will and entitle yourself to my parents' home, you also can't say, I am English, and entitle yourself to the country.
Maajid Nawaz: "So, again, this is important, and I think where we're going to end up disagreeing is probably on terms, actually, semantic, in the sense that I see that you're, probably for understandable reasons, territorial over the word English to describe the ethnicity, and I'm saying the ethnicity is important, but perhaps the word is a synonym, and that's probably where our disagreement would be."