Leftist:
But without government, who will look after the poor?
Me:
Before the welfare state existed, working-class men cared for the poor without the need for your tax dollars.
Friendly societies and fraternal lodges, groups like the Independent Order of Odd Fellows and the Ancient Order of Foresters, covered millions of Americans and Britons by 1900. They paid sick benefits, death benefits, and contracted physicians called lodge doctors, who charged members roughly $1 to $2 annually for full medical care. Competition kept those doctors honest. Members fired physicians who underperformed.
The state destroyed this ecosystem, specifically through the 1911 National Insurance Act in Britain and its American successors. The British Medical Association lobbied hard to eliminate lodge practice because those contracted rates embarrassed the profession. Government handed doctors a captive market instead.
By 1920, lodge medicine was gutted. You lost the ability to fire your provider, lost transparent pricing, and inherited a bureaucracy that answered to politicians, not to you.
Mutual aid societies solved the knowledge problem that central planners cannot solve. Members lived near each other, worked the same trades, and could detect fraud immediately. A sick neighbor either was sick or wasn't. No bureaucrat 400 miles away can make that call.
David Beito documented all of this in his 2000 book "From Mutual Aid to the Welfare State." Voluntary association produced accountable, affordable welfare. Government produced dependency and cartelized medicine. The substitution caused a theft of function.
Any government wants its people dependent on it, not on some social society.